What is a head game scout?

Want a career in the gaming industry? We find out what it takes to become a head game scout, why networking is so important, and how games are more about creativity than technology

Participants

• Emily Slade - podcast producer and host, Prospects
• Joshua Garrity - head game scout, Secret Mode

Transcript

Joshua Garrity: I think I'm proof that networking works, talking to people works, going to events works. If you're wanting to join the industry find out where your local events are. Go to them. Sign up. Go.

Emily Slade: Hello and welcome to Future You, the podcast brought to you by graduate careers experts, Prospects. I'm your host, Emily Slade, and in this episode I chat to Joshua Garrity who works as a head game scout for Secret Mode.

Emily Slade: So we are here to talk today about you and your job, which is a very exciting job. You're a head video game scout, is that correct?

Joshua Garrity: Correct. Yes.

Emily Slade: So let's go back to the beginning as it were. Did you go to university?

Joshua Garrity: I did, I have a bit of a weird journey to to where I am now. I mean, just a peek behind the curtain for everyone, Emily and I know each other from a long time ago. So this is not going to come as a surprise to her. But originally, I wasn't pursuing a role in the games industry, I was more interested in performance acting, that kind of thing. I ended up doing a foundation degree in drama that just didn't go anywhere. And then the real change of fortunes came when I decided, wait a minute, I really like games. Why don't I pursue something in this trajectory? So I took a course at London Southbank University, called games caught it was a BA in games, cultures, and the degree itself. So I go to one yay, great, whatever. But the degree itself was not necessarily the thing that propelled me forward. It was the connections I made and the networking I did as part of that degree, being able to get access to free BAFTA events and things like that meeting people in the industry, getting to know people. And quickly realizing that I don't know my tone, my tenor, kind of fit with the culture of that industry. And I don't mean to bad bells, the theatre industry, but there's a lot of children. There's a lot of, there's a lot of ego. There's a lot of like, snobbery, and I just found that the games industry has has its faults, but it was absent of that particular type of personality. So I found it more welcoming because of it.

Emily Slade: So it was primarily through networking, that you managed to land all of your different jobs. So how did you first enter the industry specifically?

Joshua Garrity: So again, it was a who I knew rather than what I what I knew situation, I was really good friends with somebody. Their name is Darren, they were working at sold out at the time as a product marketing manager. They were leaving, because they were having a kid at the time. And the role was very demanding in terms of time, and they wanted to focus on family, that kind of thing. But they said, okay, my my role is going up. They will, they're going to want to fill that role. Josh, you should apply because you'd be good at this role. I applied, I got it. I can't say I got it. Due to the strength of the interview, I have to assume that Taryn put in a good word for me. And, and that's and that's how i i ended up in the games industry, I was there. Sorry to kind of go off road for a second. I was at sold out for six years. I initially wasn't in a role. That's kind of similar to what I'm doing. Now. Initially, I was more doing marketing, that kind of thing. I kind of showed what I had demonstrated was an aptitude for good communication with developers with partners. And more and more I was taking on responsibility for creating business for talking with people external, external to the company and and inviting them into the fold.

Emily Slade: Would you say that your background in drama gave you those communication skills, those confidence skills, those networking skills?

Joshua Garrity: The truth is like I am very much an introvert masquerading as an extrovert, like I've been able to fool everyone into thinking that I'm sociable and loud and quirky. But in reality, this is just it's not it's not that i'm fake. It's a version of myself that I'm like presenting in order to be effective of my job and that is absolutely the acting kind of coming in, like tap into a truth that's inside of you, present that to the world because you staring at the floor being nervous and hesitating over every word is not going to be useful, or particularly charming in this scenario, so and so yeah, like it absolutely has been useful in the show.

Emily Slade: So can we talk a bit more about what your entry level positions where you talk about marketing and that sort of thing? What does that literally involve?

Joshua Garrity: In my role, because I was more on the product marketing manager side of things, which is more like, basically like a project manager for the marketing campaign. So it's like building out the plan, and being a point of contact for the external partner. So it's a lot of herding cats, honestly. So things like getting banner ads up on certain like platforms, organising events, like so in the games industry, we have events, like Gamescom. They'll have like booth space for various publishers and individual titles. So you're responsible for that, essentially, I was less responsive to the other side of marketing is like the PR kind of press, influencer, that kind of stuff was less involved with that. So I was more kind of talking with the client specific specifically, rather than press or people like that.

Emily Slade: And you've worked your way up in a way to to head to video game scout. So what does that mean? What do you do?

Joshua Garrity: So I basically had to do the most fun part of because all of my roles have been involved communication with developers, right from the very start. But as as head game scout, or any game scouting role, essentially, I just get to go out into the world, talk with creators, talk with artists about their projects, what they're passionate about. And get a pic with pay for it, to present to the rest of the team. Obviously, in a head game scout role, I get to talk more on the strategy side of things like the wider guiding lights, like what kinds of games are we looking at what kinds of developers do we want to build long term relationships with, but in terms of the kind of hands in the mud side of things, it's very much kind, the metaphor I always use - a scout is like a truffle pig. Like i'm a little truffle pig that the publisher puts out into the wilderness. I snuffle around for truffles. And then occasionally I find a really, really good truffle, and then the development directors hand will reach out in front of me and go okay, thank you, Josh, for finding this truffle. Now the adults are gonna take over we're gonna do, we're gonna we're gonna add we're gonna use this truffle properly. I promise you, you know. So yeah, that's essentially my role. Like I'm I'm, I'm a mixture of DEV relations Biz Dev and kind of grand strategy kind of all mixed into one.

Emily Slade: Nice what truffle Have you been most proud of?

Joshua Garrity: Both in terms of the quality of the game and just fiscally, Core Keeper is probably the one I'm most proud of. It's still in early access. If people listening to this don't know what early access is. Steam has this kind of launched but not launched, state, that games can go into where you can buy it, but it's under the understanding that you're kind of feeding into the development process. You're kind of giving feedback to the game on the lead up to the official launch. So Core Keeper is still in early access and has sold over 2 million units already. It's going into 1.0 which is full launch in August of this year and is expected to absolutely smash its targets. It's also a really good game. It's like a cross between Minecraft and Dungeon Keeper with eight player Co-Op. Yeah, it's it's a really it's a really special game. So yeah, that one I'm most proud of. Shadows of Doubt. I do want to do a shout out for that title as well, which is like a detective adventure game. But with like procedurally generated elements of the story is different every time just in terms of the pure creativity and ingenuity of that title. I love that as well.

Emily Slade: Yeah. Oh, amazing. So what do you love most stuff about your job?

Joshua Garrity: Most of the time I'm talking to people who are genuinely passionate about the medium, and that's what I love most is like going to events, meeting new people, meeting developers, like, we'll talk about the project, but then we get naturally we get into what inspired you what, what drew you to this idea. And we start talking about, you know, the games that are really special that you know, had an impact. So, yeah, it's a good thing that my favorite thing about this role is talking to people, because that's what I spend most of my time doing. But yeah, but that would be it.

Emily Slade: Nice, so how do you continue learning and growing as a professional?

Joshua Garrity: The honest answer? So I don't really have like, and this will alarm, some people listening, I don't really have like a plan, as it were, in terms of my progress. I am very much opportunistic type personality, where I just say yes to things that land on my land. And my sphere of influence, like the head game scout role here at secret mode was very much like people going, Josh, you should you should apply to this, like, go for it. In terms of like roles, because I've kind of reached the logical endpoint of scouting as a role like that other than working at bigger, more prestigious publishers like this is kind of, I'm at the top of my field, the kind of role after this would be like VP of strategy, or VP of publishing, to take on, you know, more of like, a proper leadership role. Within a publisher, I have to say, and I'm not, I don't feel like I want that just yet, at least the next couple of years. I'm very, very happy in the position that I'm in, you know, I feel... I'm not going to go into details, but I feel well compensated for the role. I enjoy the work. So I'm probably going to pursue a version of this for the time being, until I get bored. And at which point, I will look upwards.

Emily Slade: Nice, excellent. What is the best piece of advice that you've ever received?

Joshua Garrity: The best piece of advice I ever received, was that, doubt is an essential component of intelligence. So if you doubt yourself, you're just, It's proof that you actually know what you're doing. Basically, like, obviously, impostor syndrome is everywhere. Everyone experiences that, I think it's a good reminder that sometimes the people in your sphere who are very confident and overly so have no idea what they're doing. And it's almost like your moral duty to put yourself forward. Even though you doubt yourself, even though you're like, I can't do this. The fact that you have that for means that you are better suited for that role than someone who says, I'm absolutely certain I'm the best person for this role. So that that is the best piece of advice and been given.

Emily Slade: What industry trends are you keeping an eye on?

Joshua Garrity: So you may not be aware of this, but the games industry is going through a bit of a rough ride at the moment.

Emily Slade: Really? I thought everyone was playing Baldur's Gate 3.

Joshua Garrity: Well, if you work at Larian [studios], thumbs up you're happy. If you work at Nintendo, also, thumbs up, you're very happy Capcom as well. Thumbs up, you're happy. I think the industry is suffering a little bit from we had a bump during COVID. For obvious reasons. Everyone's indoors. Why don't I try out Animal Crossing, you know, like, I need to play some games to pass the time. And anyone who understands how behavioral trends work, of course, the moment lockdown stopped, that was gonna re adjust itself, right. People who weren't that into games will kind of go back to the things that they they loved anyway, right. But industries being what they are - line must go up line must continue to go up. So there's been a bit of an adjustment period after after the COVID bump disappeared, where everyone's trying to realise that this is you know, sales aren't going to be what they were during the COVID period. I think we're going through an interesting period where I think and similar to the movie industry actually, actually, the movie industry, a lot of original non IP stuff is breaking through in a way that it didn't previously. And I think the games industry is in for a similar trend. I'm where I, you know, there are certain IPs that will always do well. But I think I think original ideas, original concepts that that kind of mid to indie budget, are gonna have their time in the sun in a way that in previous years could have bigger budgeting, the equivalents of like the MCU, were kind of dominant. So that's what I would say, is a trend to look for in the games industry going forward.

Emily Slade: So do you work a traditional sort of Monday to Friday, nine to five? How do you organise and manage your time?

Joshua Garrity: It varies wildly, some weeks it very much is like a nine to five, like, clear out my inbox, have a few calls, but then I clock off. But then you have events where pretty much from the moment you wake up, to go to bed, you're on the clock, because even breakfast is work, even dinner is work, you know, you kind of have to accept that that's a reality in this role. Thankfully, like, look, I'm not going to say no to having dinner, while having a meeting, you know, it's not it's not exactly I'm not like woe is me about it or anything. But it's, it's certainly it's certainly cushier than than most roles, but like you are on it, you have to be on, you have to have a professional head on that that whole time. And that can be exhausting. There is also the reality of time zones that can take a toll as well. Thankfully, like, I can be quite flexible with my schedule. So if I were having a meeting with somebody in Australia, I can say to my line manager, look, I'm taking an extra hour at lunch, because I woke up at God knows how early to talk to somebody in Melbourne. And, and vice versa, the other side where I'm talking to somebody in the West Coast of the US, and I have to kind of stay an extra hour to make that happen. So I will say like in terms of work life balance, like I do feel like I have, I do have two hands firmly on the wheel on that front, like I do have plenty of time to myself. But I have to be flexible, I guess is what I'm trying to say it can't just be, I only work within these hours, and that's it. It has to be give and take.

Emily Slade: Yeah, nice, perfect. Are there any expectations you've had about your career that turned out to be different in reality?

Joshua Garrity: Haha, so in the film industry, everyone is largely everyone cares about film, loves film is invested in film, in the music industry, largely everyone cares about music is interested in music loves, loves music, you know, a creative industry, most creative industries. Most of the people you encounter at least at like the kind of low mid even high level I kind of invested in in that medium, I do encounter a lot of people who are more on the tech industry side of the games industry. And I don't feel that same kind of passion for games as an art form, and more as kind of pieces of software and you know, their ability to make money. And I I am a little bit disappointed by that. It depends who you are like I am more in the kind of indie to mid tier in terms of budget range. So I am limited in terms of my contact with that kind of ethos and personality. But certainly with like legal firms, insurance firms, like I just had a chat with somebody at an event recently where they said, Oh, I'm the tech guy in the office so that they got me got me to come down to this games industry event. I know that we're very... Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here, but I have a real like pet peeve, like when it comes to the way culture and people outside the games industry frame the games industry. Even though we are heavily reliant on tech, we are very dependent on tech to create what we create. We are not a tech industry in the same way, that film uses a lot of CGI and a lot of special effects that require tech to create. Film is not a tech industry. Games are an arts industry. We are a creative industry. And I feel like a good indicator of what a newspaper thinks of the games industry is where we're placed what section we're in. Because in The Guardian, we're in the culture, the culture section, but there are other newspapers where it's like oh, this is the games and tech corner, and I'm like, what are you doing? Sorry to go off on a tangent there. But like, that's an entire that's a that's a personality that you encounter in and around the game. And, and I think it's a real issue. I think it's something we need to fix, like the games industry needs to, in terms of our PR, or whatever. Like, we're not, we're not a tech industry, we're an arts industry.

Emily Slade: I really honestly would have expected you to be surrounded by people that were playing Metroid under the covers at nighttime and then like working their way up through all the different games as they were getting older. And, you know, could talk your ear off about Mario...can you tell I don't play any video games?

Joshua Garrity: I don't mean to overstate it like I am like, exactly what you're describing. I just I guess I'm surprised that the message hasn't fully come through that this is this is quite this industry is closer to film and music in terms of what we're creating than Google, you know, like, or Facebook, you know, that's not well, that's not what we are. And I feel like a lot of, I'm not gonna I can't go into detail here, unfortunately. But I feel like a lot of the faceplant moments that the games industry has had has been due to that fundamental misunderstanding has been due to that framing of us as a tech industry, rather than arts industry, and people having to learn that lesson the hard way.

Emily Slade: So in your roles, what technical skills have you relied on?

Joshua Garrity: I'll be honest, a lot on my technical skills are knowing knowing the path but not being able to walk the path? So there will be questions like, Do you have a C++ programmer? Your game is unreal, great. Like, how much of the game is in blueprints, like, stuff like that? Where like, I know enough to get me in trouble. But if you asked me to, if you asked me to make make a game, like I like I could, I could probably cobble something together. But I'm not a game designer. I'm not a not a producer. I'm not that. Basically, I have enough technical knowledge. And I've done enough research in terms of, and I've watched enough talks, where I can be annoying to somebody who, who knows what they're doing. I know, I know how to ask probing questions to get to get specific answers. But you would never put me in charge of a game design project like that. That's, that's that's the level of technical expertise. I have.

Emily Slade: So your role very much more relies on the soft skills. You've already talked about networking communication, what other soft skills do you rely on?

Joshua Garrity: Assertiveness? is important, because I'm in a lot of situations where I'm talking like, I'm talking with leadership, right? I'm talking with, I'm often in calls of executives, right? So I have to be able to confidently get my point across without annoying anyone. So that's a key thing, like finding that balance. Being You know, being tough. A lot of it is being tactful with word choice. And excising words from your vocabulary that are unnecessary, you know, like, sorry to be annoying, sorry to bother you, blah, blah, blah, these like passive things that people do to placate other people, but actually put themselves in a weaker position overall, I think, also, so this is kind of a soft skill, I guess. But I'm using a super corporate term for it. But like radical candor is a thing. Basically what radical candor is, is honesty is the best policy, right? It's basically forcing you to understand that sometimes people trusting you is more important than people liking you. So when I say that, by the way, I don't mean like, it is okay to be unreasonable. But like sometimes you're in a situation where you know what the person wants to hear as a certain answer, right? But it is bad for you to give them that answer and you it is your responsibility to tell them the truth. and short term, they might be a bit grumpy. But long term, that person now doesn't have any reason to doubt anything you say to them going forward, right? But you've built like that trust where it's like, okay, I'm not going to second guess, Josh, because he told me this thing I really don't want to err. But I know he's gonna be he's, he's a straight shooter. So that that's important. And when I say tell the truth, I don't necessarily, I'm not accusing anyone of like lying. But people do that thing where they, they sugarcoat, they embellish, you know, it's just social peer pressure thing of like, I want to cushion cushion this, so that you don't feel bad, but sometimes, like, managing conflict is, is a part of relationships, right? And if you hide things, or even just obscure things, you are long term causing damage that it may feel better in the short term, right. So that's important. A soft skill, but absolutely comes from acting, being able to talk in a way that doesn't set people to sleep. Late, you know, this, Emily, like, I like a large part of acting is like, you're taking people on a journey, or you're like you're you're, you're conveying information in a way.

Emily Slade: Yeah, it's good storytelling.

Joshua Garrity: Yeah, it's like this, the thing where you're like, is that a regular pace of talk like that the tone that I'm projecting right now, all of that stuff? Are these are just like, subconscious things that I'm doing without even thinking about it. That makes me interesting to listen to, that makes peep that draws people in, right. And anyone that has any kind of acting experience is able to do that, right. But you would be shocked how many people just cannot do it. And in unfortunately, you find developers who are very, very talented, very good at what they do, right? Extremely talented developers who cannot sell their game whatsoever. Because they're just they completely. I don't want to say they're completely like curious, but they just don't have I don't have that like energy, right, where they can they can present. Whereas, so I wouldn't put those developers in front of the people that I work with, because I know that the moment I do that, like the game is dead? By no, there's something there. So I will take on the role, developer and go, right, I am pitching this game to you folks.

Emily Slade: So finally, what advice do you have for anyone looking to enter the industry?

Joshua Garrity: I think I'm proof positive that networking works, talking to people works, going to events works. If you're wanting to join the industry, find out what your local events are. There are things like in the north of England, there are things like Gameo, GamesIndustry.biz run a bunch of events, BAFTA, more so in London, I'll be honest, but BAFTA do run a lot of events as well. Go to them, sign up, go. And don't, don't make the mistake that everyone makes when they first start networking of like, approaching a group of people, I'm just immediately putting your, your business cards in front of them. Just talk just talk to people just be a human being. I talk to people, if things that you're passionate about come up in conversation, talk about it, like show your passion demonstrate you make friends, like that is what essentially networking is like it's, it's making friends with people. And then when you feel comfortable and you start like your your kind of network gets to a point where you can go to event and you know, you just know people, there's someone in the room that you can approach, then you can start like putting your car in front of people then you can start like searching for jobs asking after jobs and things like that, you will have a far better chance of landing a gig that way than simply scrolling through LinkedIn and applying to things like people. It may be unreasonable, it may be unfair, but people are more likely to hire a familiar face. Like that's just the way of things so that that's the advice I would give you go out there and talk to people.

Emily Slade: Amazing. Well that's brilliant. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been really helpful.

Joshua Garrity: No worries, thank you for having me.

Emily Slade: Thanks again to Josh for his time. For more information on different job roles available or to find vacancies in the gaming industry head to Prospects.ac.uk. If you enjoyed todays episode we'd love it if you could leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Thank you so much for listening and good luck on your journey to future you.

Notes on transcript

This transcript was produced using a combination of automated software and human transcribers and may contain errors. The audio version is definitive and should be checked before quoting.

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